Need Some ES&H

[evergrowing]

Dear Family,

Over a year in this program makes a huge difference and I feel like I have a come a long way. Yet, I have some lingering codie stuff going on and I would appreciate any ES&H you have on how to work through it, how to transform it. I know that coming and sharing about it is the first step.

Part of my disease is not knowing where my husband ends and I begin. So when someone gossips about him, it hurts me. When someone is rude to him, it hurts me. The other day we were with his family and his sister was relentlessly picking him apart. She criticized the way he chewed, the way he was dressed, the fact that he had taken some things from his mom's house the weekend before and they were still sitting in his car (he hadn't transferred them to our house) and so on.

I know better than to butt in. I didn't say anything while we were there and I didn't bring it up with my husband later. I know it's his to deal with. And yet, I just wonder -- will the day come when I see that kind of interaction and not react inwardly to it? Will I be able to see that kind of thing take place and not feel an overwhelming surge of sadness and anger? Is there anything I can do detach more?

It also happened when I found out that some friends were gossiping about him. I felt it as if they were gossiping about me. So often in the past, people were verbally abusive towards him and I experienced it as if it were directed to me.

I think it's natural to feel sad when we watch someone we love being hurt by another person. It is so degrading to see his sister talk to him like that. I think there is a certain level of emotion that would go along with seeing that happen to anyone we love, yet I think that to the degree that I feel it when it comes to my husband, is unhealthy.

If any of you have experienced this, I would greatly appreciate any ES&H. Thank God I have my program so I don't react anymore, but I wonder if the day will come when I don't feel it so intensely. I really hope so.

Love you all!

[drinkingwater]

Hey M!
I think that is a completely normal and natural reaction, whether your loved one is an addict or not. I know I am always quick to defend the people I care about, though I have gotten away from it a bit over the past year in NarAnon. I have this sense of responsibility to the people I care about and it's going to take a long time for me to really get that it's not my job to stand up for others who can stand up for themselves. My addict's dad used to say all sorts of awful things to him and about him. I started out by jumping in to make excuses for my addict or to "explain" why he behaved the way he did. I finally realized that his dad had those feelings for a reason - the reason was my addict! His dad had a lot of anger because of things my addict had done to hurt him. I had to get out of the way and let them work it out for themselves. What step is it where you make amends? An addict in recovery will get the eventually. People lash out when they've been hurt but I can't fix someone else's hurt feelings unless I'm the one who caused them. Otherwise, I have to stay out of it and let the paths of others go where they will. We all have to learn how to stand up for ourselves and my addict isn't going to learn that if I keep standing up for him.

::hugs::
Lindsey

[DianeB]

M:

I understand.

I am not sure that this is a situation of not knowing where he ends
and you begin.

I love my son. Hearing hurtful things brings up feelings - one of which
is discomfort in hearing them. I believe that I have the right to say,
"I am uncomfortable with this and would appreciate it if you would
change the subject."

I have the right to feel uncomfortable with the words of anyone who
makes inappropriate, cruel, mean comments. I have the right to
disengage from that conversation and the right to speak my truth.

I can't worry about what others say that I don't hear....and their
personal opinions is none of my business.

I also have to be very careful of making sure that I am not taking
responsibility for his feelings (something I am often willing to do),
and not defend him...that is his job. But, I do have the right to
end conversations that are uncomfortable to ME....no matter who
they are about.

Feeling hurt by rudeness....I can't imagine not.

Say what you mean but don't say it mean. This is about your
comfort level....

Hugs.....

[river rock]

I have come to the point i stay away from
Peeps like that,i dont waste time and
Emotions on them,my sister is one. And
Those other people arent friends
Life is too short to waste on fake friends
And miserable people..just my take.
Love
River rock

[Angelgirly2]

Well I really like this post. The replies are different from one another. It makes me think, and to look at over protecting. I know I would get mad if someone talked about my husband this way.
I don't like it when people are so condemning, and self righteous, I believe a little bit of humility is a good thing. A little bit of compassion goes a long ways. I totally agree with River Rock, if it were me, I would stay away from people like that. And if we had to be in the same room, well, I would probably be on the other side!

[judyg]

I heard an interview of Maya Angelou on the radio recently that had a strong impact on me. She said that she believed words were things that had power. She did not allow negative words to be uttered in her home because she felt they had an impact on the space long after they were said. For the same reasons, I believe words have an impact on me long after they are said. In fact, I know this to be true. As Diane said, what someone says outside my house and outside my presence is none of my business and affects me not. But if something is said to me or in my home that impacts me negatively, I have the right to stand up and stop it or walk away. This is not just an addiction issue.

Thanks for an interesting topic.

Judy

[shesajar]

My AH was unfaithful to me while he was using. I've made the decision to work on the marriage and take the divorce option off the table (for now.)

A lot of my friends and family want to tell me about how angry they are at AH or how I'm "a bigger person" than they are for staying because they would "never let anyone treat [them] like that!"

My new favorite phrase: "That's not helping me."

It started out as "I can certainly understand why you would feel that way and yes, I'm very angry at him myself, but trash talking him isn't going to help anyone." Then I took out all the words that related to taking responsibility for other's feelings, equivocating, minimizing and peacemaking, and I was left with "trash talking isn't help" which sounded a little too snarky so I clarified it a bit.

I've used my new favorite phrase on both of my parents and a few friends and it works great.

[evergrowing]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. I can see that I need to be more proactive. While I felt defensive, I didn't say anything or try to jump in to defend him. I know that I have to get out of his way and let him tell his sister to shut up if he feels the need. That's why I didn't bring it up with him at all. Maybe it didn't bother him. I don't know but I do know that it doesn't have my name on it.

I find his family to be very toxic and unhealthy for me. They are all suffering from addiction and codependency and aren't getting themselves help. I used to be so angry at them but then I realized that I can have boundaries and protect myself as much as possible. I limit the time I spend with them and actually ask to be left of out of any discussions about their drama. It has helped so much. Boundaries are really amazing. I can protect myself up to a certain point and then if I must be there, I can leave the room, change the subject or directly tell them I don't want to hear what they have to say about my husband. I try to have compassion for them because I know that underneath all of the nastiness is so much pain.

You are right that it is natural to feel sad when someone we love is spoken about. I would feel like that for anyone close to me, not just my husband. I just wasn't sure if it was part of my codie tendency to feel his feelings. At least now I don't have the mistaken sense of responsibility to fix it like I used to.

I will continue to take care of myself and limit my time with these negative people. If they weren't family I would never talk to them again after the pain they have put me through but I think there are many lessons to be learned by not running away.

Thanks for all of your insights.

Love you!

[finallyready]

I have been in that position more times in my life then I care to remember. Doesn't matter to me if my family member is an addict or not, I found it important to stick up for those I love. Now with a AS it seems as though those comment still being made are focused on him because he is an addict but then I remember back to those days gone by and realize it is just my mind thinking that. People talked about him and others before his addiction and will do so even though he went to rehab. My husbands parents used to say that if they are talking about us they are leaving others alone and if they are talking about others they are leaving us alone. Those who pick on and be little others are lacking something in their own lives. Say a prayer for their own recovery for they need help themselves. Don't know if this helped but I just don't take kindly to those types of people. Hang in there.

[tavalon]

One of the biggest things I had to learn as a codependent was where I end and the other or others begin. It sure seems like something I would have learned in kindergarten, along with sharing. How can I share if I don't know where I end and the other begins. But that wasn't taught and in fact, merging was always encouraged. When I left my husband, I was scared to have it too quiet so I always had a radio or TV on. I thought, before the ex came back into my life as an addict, that I really understood the boundaries between me and thee, but within 3 months, I was so submerged in him that I didn't even know who me was, so for me, losing a core learned lesson comes fast and luckily relearning it also comes fast, praise the goddess.

When someone says something hurtful about one of my partners, I ask them to speak directly to my partner and I feel sad for my partner, but I don't take on any guilt or shame, he is not me and I am not him. I'm also quick to request that they not gossip to me. If they say "it's venting", I tell them they can only vent to me if they are also going to talk to my partner, otherwise, they need to vent to someone else.

[tati]

Hi, Melinda:

I really got a lot out of your initial post and then your second. I finally developed boundaries, too, and also realized that my AH had hurt a lot of folks. I eventually realized that I wasn't responsible for what he did and did not do. I, too, was codependent, and happened fortunately remembered the phrase "triangulation." I had to stop talking about my AH with family members and friends: even when they wanted to engage. I let those people who I felt close to know that any issues that they had with my AH, had nothing to do with me; and that they needed to speak with him directly.

They also knew that if they could not reach him on our home phone or his cell, (he had usually relapsed) not to call me for any information. It was a boundary that I had to set for my own peace of mind. I also turn off my home phones during those times so I don't even have to hear them ring. My AH is a performer and when he didn't show up for gigs, the phone would ring constantly. I used to try and explain, make excuses and apologize for his non-appearances. Of course, many people would be furious. I heard many things that I didn't want to hear. Then I remembered the three Cs, and just began to protect myself by shutting of the phone.

I think that we have a right to protect ourselves; and that we have to set boundaries with others as to what they can and can not say to us about our ALOs. I've also come to believe that our ALOs have to clean up their own messes! We can't do it for them.

tati

[meg]

When people are negative...it says more about their need to be negative than does about anyone eles. Just saying...when you got a whole bunch of stuff to say about someone else...probably time to look in the mirror. love ya!